Meet Nikki: Trauma, the Therapeutic Relationship, and Accessibility

Join Baltimore based clinician Nikki Wieman, LCPC, clinican and Director and Clinical Operations, Nia Jones, LCPC, and B'well's Owner and Supervisor, Jake Jackson-Wolf, LCPC, to discuss working through trauma, showing up for clients, accessibility challenges for clinicians, and more.

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Video Transcript:

Jake: Welcome back to another Meet the Therapist, today we're joined by Nikki Wieman, who is a new therapist with our group. Started just about a month ago now.

Nikki: Yeah it’s been a month and this is actually the week of like, one month anniversary. 

Jake: Happy one month anniversary!

Nia: Congrats!

Jake: So we've obviously known you for a little while now and are excited to have you as part of the group and you know, looking forward to this as an opportunity to share more with the community about who you are, the work you do, and find, people can find out how to refer to you, how to work with you and you know what makes us all so excited about you. So, excited to be here.

Nia: Yeah!

Jake: We’ll launch right in with what Nia has coined my favorite question. Which I like it but I don't know that I'm ready to commit to it being my favorite, but I like it. Which is, you know, as we think about these sort of overlapping areas of the intersections of what your clients are showing up with that gets you really excited to help folks. What's your client Venn diagram? How do you explain that to folks?

Nikki: What a lovely question, it’s actually really funny that we're talking about Venn diagrams because before this interview I have not thought about a Venn diagram since like second grade, but big fan. Um, I think you know how there’s like the two Venn diagrams where it’s like this, and then there’s like the three one, the three piece Venn diagram. I feel like I kind of find myself working with like a more three prongs I guess, I guess that doesn't work when you're working with circles but um, a three piece Venn diagram where I feel like probably in the center focus of my work is trauma-informed care. Folks who are coming in with trauma or maybe just something that happened in their life that maybe they’re not even identifying as trauma that has really impacted them and stays with them and kind of shapes the way that they move through the world. And if we’re expanding out to the other side of these things, I like the way that I use EMDR to work with folks who have trauma where, which is something that they recently learned and have been practicing, and that's really helpful for my clients who feel like maybe they hit a wall with traditional talk therapy and want something a little bit more body focused a little bit more somatic maybe going places where they feel like their words or conversations aren't taking them. Then we go to the other part of our Venn diagram where I feel like I work a lot with people who have or hold queer identities and are figuring out like who they are, who they want to be in the world, and that's also showing up now too in my work with like couples as well and then like the last piece that I think of my Venn diagram is just the things that happened because we're human. So feeling anxious, feeling very low and depressed. So I feel like that is the Venn diagram and I think adding into the center of a little diagram, relationships. Because I feel like there’s always overlap in all of that. Yeah, that’s the Venn diagram! 

Nia: Yeah, that’s a hefty (Nikki: Sorry it’s a lot) Venn diagram. A beautiful, really, and what I've grown to know about you, I think really fits your work. 

Nikki: Yeah.

Nia: What do you feel like is bringing people in to see you right now? If it is like the relational pieces or depression, anxiety, I don’t know if there's like certain things right now.

Nikki: Yeah right now I've been actually seeing a lot of couples which has been really exciting and thrilling and I think my couples come to me for a lot of different reasons that I don't think that's like a necessarily like one size fit all yet, so maybe as I progress in my career and like my like therapeutic identity and journey myself that'll be a little bit more refined. And I think a lot of clients are coming to me right now to kind of, I would say like work through some trauma, something that happened, an event, memory, stories or experiences that they tell themselves that keep them stuck. I feel like that's what I'm seeing a lot I think. It's actually funny a conversation that I had with Jake earlier today in supervision is that, what was the term like the presenting problem isn’t actually the-

Jake: It’s not, the presented, the presented problem versus the presenting problem. Right, that so frequently people show up with, I love the words you used there, a story they're telling themselves about why they're stuck.

Nikki: Yeah.

Jake: And how that can sometimes be different from what we find out is what’s keeping folks stuck. And that that's this often overlooked role of the therapist is, say hey this whole thing like I'm not disagreeing with you, but have you thought about this too? And they go, and how many times have any of us had clients look at us and say, I have literally never thought about it that way, thank you so much for saying that. And that is such a rewarding- 

Nikki: Oh absolutely.

Jake: Yeah.

Nikki: Yeah that feels like a therapeutic jackpot sometimes I’m like thanks, but like really happy for. And I mean I think sometimes too, like uncovering that I guess like that aha moment, it's not going to be an aha moment at every session, I think that’d be exhausting if you were uncovering this grand like revelation about you and your life right, but like when we get to that moment, it can be, it can be a lot of fun actually to be able to uncover these pieces. Like you resolved your life what’s going on. And sometimes it could be like a challenge but like the thing about being a therapist is like you're not, having a therapist, going to therapy, you're not alone in that work of uncovering and figuring out solutions.

Jake: I want to know your why?

Nikki: Yeah.

Jake: Why do you do this work? Something I probably said to you in the interview process is if you answer because I want to help people, I’m ending this interview right now. Because there's lots of people that help people yeah a lot of them make a lot more money than we all ever will, and that I'm happy for them. But something else right that compels us to do this work and to stay in this work. What is it for you? 

Nikki: Okay well first of all I feel like I have to say, being a therapist is like the most wild and wacky job ever, it is such a cool new thing and I feel so like blessed and privileged that I get to do this work, and like honor that my clients trust me and invite me into like, like invite me into their lives like truly it feels right. Like just the best gift in the entire world and that's not I didn't know that it was going to be this rewarding but I, like many therapists, am I allowed to curse during this?

Jake: Yeah.

Nikki: Okay.

Nia: Invite it in.

Nikki: I got a history, I have some of my own things and I, in my life I feel like I naturally found myself into just like helping roles, whatever that, not helping people but just like helping roles like mentorship positions, finding myself and like leadership roles and like when I was going through college, and I'm a first gen college student, so first person in my family to go to college so that was a big deal. And I got there I was like I don't know what I'm doing at all, but I was always interested in doing something that was like people focused, person centered and I was like I'm not going to be a doctor, I'm not going to like, so I was like well like what else is there for me? And in doing like the leadership roles that I was in I found it to just be like what felt natural to me, like more like a vocation like I, I do best when I'm doing things for and with others. And I was like okay, like where do my talents meet the needs of the world. And I was like I definitely not math, it's definitely not business, there's no way, no offense to people who have business centered jobs. I just, Excel sheets, numbers, not for me. And I was like okay, people, and I had a really wonderful professor who worked alongside me and like I'm mentorship role that I was doing for first year students at the college that I went to, and he was like I think you'd be a really excellent like therapist, and I was like you know what I think you're right, and it gave me the courage to really pursue this. And I'm, there's so many moments where in my job and in my work that I’m like, this is, this is what I’m meant to be doing, and it feels so good to be able to do that. Yeah, but that was my dramatic monologue about that, so. 

Nia: No that’s, that’s great. It shows where you’ve been in this process of getting here, what’s helped you and what you've identified in this work for yourself, how you can show up and why. Yeah.

Nikki: It’s making me a little emotional, I’m like wow. Anyways.

Nia: Yeah, I mean it’s really meaningful. It’s powerful. Yeah. Kind of going down to like the nitty gritty a little bit, and I’m like. Okay.

Jake: That part’s gonna be really loud. 

Nia: So sorry. Um, what is, what does a session look like with you?

Nikki: Well it depends. Um, it really depends. I think you always get consistent Nikki showing up. But I think depending on where we're at in our therapeutic process the journey, sessions will look different. And, oh man, it’s just so, it is so hard to say what one session will look like because I want sessions to feel like they're, they're meeting my clients needs and I think sometimes our needs can change and I want to be flexible with that. So if we're doing EMDR, EMDR looks a lot different than when we're doing parts work and IFS, or we’re trying to regulate our nervous system a little bit better using DBT skills or whether we're unpacking something that happened. And I mean I think there is a lot of fun that I like to have in sessions with my clients like alongside the work that we're doing, and I think what I hope my sessions look like the most at least I hope this is a constant in every session is that my clients know that I'm excited to see them and that they're welcome here. So I want it to be like a warm, holding space, and then we get to decide together that day, or like based on like what we've been working on or talking about last session, where we we take the hour because the hour is for the client and I'm here for my clients in that hour fully. That make sense?

Nia: Mhm

Nikki: So it depends. Which I think is a little fun it’s like a choose your own adventure, you know? A little bit?

Nia: Yeah.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nia: Period. 

Jake: Well I think, semicolon. I think, something you and I were just talking about is the, the difference between this clients showing up and I think you can very easily go to that like crisis of the week place. And I think one of the things that I appreciate about you is, is naming how there is, there's some sense of purpose and direction that you’re bringing to the work that says. I definitely want to hear how your week was, and we're doing something bigger here.

Nikki: One hundo p!

Jake: Yes, please do! My favorite Nikki-ism. There’s, if we want somebody to talk about our week with, we can probably find that somewhere else.

Nikki: Right.

Jake: That there's this like extra component of, and how do I tie this back to the greater picture of what I'm trying to achieve out of therapy? Because people should achieve something from therapy. 

Nikki: Yeah I agree, was gonna say one hundo p again but I’m like it’s redundant. 

Jake: Yeah, not twice.

Nikki: No, no, no, we can’t. And it’s like there’s, there’s a space in my sessions I think, to talk about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce getting engaged. 

Jake: That’ll timestamp when this recording took place.

Nikki: Yes, so we can totally talk about our excitement for that if that’s true. But then also like, we're going to do some work in session, and I think therapy is hard work and that's okay. And I often like ask my clients for feedback for how a session went too. Like I like to know, so uh, did that feel like productive to you? Like what could we have done that would’ve made that better for you today? So it’s like if things aren't feeling right like you're allowed to bring that to me and talk to me about it and then we can pivot from there, and I think that’s important, so.

Jake: So sometimes this this question to me feels like a bit of a, there's like there's a flaw in the design of it. I think I maybe came up with the question, and the flaw I’ll point out is I think the word inspired feels a little bit too aspirational sometimes. Whether people want to hear this or not, as therapists we’re not inspired every day to come to work, and that's okay. But what, couching it in that, what keeps you inspired doing this work? What, what's the motivation beyond the why?

Nikki: Cause I genuinely give a shit about my clients, like genuinely care. Not in a creepy way though that it’s like weird, you know what I mean? But like, I think from a, in an interesting way and like a more like an object relations approach it's like this kind of this belief I have that like the work that we're doing like it's changing you, but also knowing you is changing me because like I know you because we're having this relationship, I'm going to be changed forever if that makes sense. And it's like, right like it's this is, this is a job but it also sometimes like it's more than that in a way cause like we're dealing with like people and humans, and even though I'm clocking out for work, that doesn’t mean that like I’m not thinking about my clients. Obviously I want to practice like a healthy work-life balance too and I do self-care too, and I wouldn’t be able to show up and be a therapist if I didn’t have my own life outside of the work that I do. But like it's like I'm genuinely invested in like how my clients are doing and I want to see them succeed and I want to know like, like speaking of, this is going to be like a Taylor Swift Travis Kelce fanclub. Like I cannot wait to share like that news with one of my clients. Like we are, and like so there are things that like make me think about clients out of session. Or if I’m reading a book that I’m like oh my God my client would really like find this helpful, I’m gonna bring it up next session. So you know what I mean, it’s like what keeps me going is because I give a shit, and I think that's important.

Nia: Yeah. 

Nikki: Yeah.

Nia: Put simply, put plainly. I mean, yeah and that, I mean but that’s a very special piece of how you show up and, and what makes a great therapist! You know, you're not here to just like give a plain intervention. And whatever it is in the session um, it really is a relational thing that you’re in it. And it really does speak to a lot of helpers if we're reading a book for ourselves, if we’re like listening to a podcast or whatever it is, we do think about our clients kind of naturally because we care.

Nikki: Yeah we care, and we’re human, and that’s a thing to do, and the relationship heals!

Nia: Yes.

Nikki: Yup, as I like to say, I feel like I'm imagining this like kind of being like The Office where you pan and zoom in sometimes, but that’s not happening and I can’t. Um, but like 

Nia: I love that.

Jake: I might Jim at the camera at some point.

Nikki: Just like boop! Uh, the greatest predictor of a positive therapeutic outcome is the therapeutic relationship! So it's really important to focus on that! I’m screaming now, but yeah.

Nia: It’s important, yeah.

Jake: I’m a fan of this, is it professor Nikki voice that comes.

Nikki: Oh God, is it? 

Jake: I love it. I didn’t know that part until it came out in this conversation here. 

Nia: The parts that show up.

Nikki: The parts that show up, yeah professor Nikki.

Nia: So, question. I know we get real a lot so feel free to continue being real. In this next question what challenges do you face or have you faced as a therapist in this field? 

Nikki: Hmm, where do I want to take this? Um, there’s, there's so many things that can be challenging about being a therapist, ah man, I think I'm going to like focus less on like the clinical work with my clients when I answer this and just focus more largely about like the field, and like I guess like my critiques of like the field and I think as like a therapist who is still navigating her own clinical identity and working to grow and really refine my skills to be the best therapist I think I can be because that’s really important to me. I think something that is challenging is kind of the gatekeeping in the field for professionals and like the way that we want to learn more. Like I think a

value of mine is just consistently, like the constant challenge to like improve and grow and learn and just be like a lifelong learner, and so there's so much of that that we could do on our own. Some of it still feels inaccessible for like lots of like, I don't know like pay walls or trainings that you need. So when I think, so I think that sometimes challenges me as a therapist. Figuring out what it, what are the ways that I could get better and how am I going to do, if that makes sense. I don't know if you guys can relate.

Nia: Absolutely. 

Jake: Yes, I also think it's what you're describing is one of the things that I have felt so passionate about in how we work here is, there are lots of other really great practices, we know a lot of them, we don't know even more of them.

Nikki: Yeah.

Jake: But one of the things that you've all heard me say a thousand times is my goal is for us to certainly provide really high quality clinical care. This other goal that I have is to provide really great job opportunities for therapists where you can get access to those things and not feel like oh that's that's yours to figure out, this, the separation of you do your clinical work and you get your supervision but then everything else is on you. I think I want us to be a change maker in the field that we sort of level up that expectation about what folks get. Because then you can provide even better care which was the first point right? So it's a, yeah it’s all of this synergy between those parts that if we have to provide good quality care we have to have highly trained therapists, which we do have highly trained therapists. We have to have, people have to be able to take care of themselves right? Which is why the caseload expectations are as low as they are. Because I want people to be well taken care of people and have lives that work around their jobs instead of jobs that that fit around that their lives you know. So, um.

Nikki: I think you're doing a really good job of that here and I just-

Jake: Please! 

Nikki: Yes yes yes yes yes!

Jake: Keep throwing more praise! 

Nikki: The best ever! Always the best!

Jake: That was the plan, the trick! I said Nikki this is about you, but actually go on!

Nia: We know.

Nikki: Well I think, just even I know I'm a newbie here, not a newbie to the field but a newbie here, just like in the past month I feel like I've learned so much and have had like a lot of opportunities to connect with others in the field and like figure out a little bit more definitively what like my clinical aspirations look like and like have a plan and just have opportunities to do that. So your mission, it's working.

Jake: We’re doing it Nia!

Nia: So affirming!

Jake: So obviously if people found their way to this video they've got all the links to our website, to your page, to your schedule, your consult scheduling calendar, to email you, to reach out to you directly, but what do you want people to know about, you know, how to reach out to you, sort of how to get the ball rolling whether they’re wanting to work with you in therapy or they’re another professional who wants to talk to you about collaborating on something. What should people know about finding their way to Nikki?

Nikki: Oh my God just reach out, just do it! 

Nia: Just do it!

Nikki: Just do it! Um like my, my job in part is just to find you like the best care to you available, and like I ideally would love to be like a great fit for all my clients who reach out to me, if that's not the case it's okay. But just if you're thinking about it, just do it, and then we have a chance to talk. Usually it's a Google Meet, it's like 30 minutes, free, it’s free. It can be a phone call too if that’s what you’re into. But we just get the chance to talk and see if we’re a good fit. I get to learn a little bit more about you, you get to learn a little bit more about me, and we see if we mesh. Do it, it can be scary but if you're already here, if you're watching this then I think that's a pretty good sign that it could be, it could be a helpful thing, it could be a helpful next step. So, yeah. 

Jake: I love that. It’s like what do you have to lose. 

Nikki: Yeah seriously!

Jake: Cause you can just say, wow, I didn't like her.

Nikki: Yes!

Jake: That's the worst outcome, I didn’t like her! I’m gonna move on to somebody else. 

Nikki: Yeah, and then, yeah!

Nia: That’s closer to where you need to be!

Jake: Sometimes the best uh, best things we learn in life are nos. Right, deep, come on don’t. But you know I get the sense that more often than not, there’s gonna be a lot of yeses, there’s gonna be a lot of Nikkis on a wait list so, thank you for sitting down with us and having this conversation. 

Nikki: Thank y’all! 

Jake: Honestly it just felt like an extension of the conversation we were having before we started the camera. Which tracks, so, so excited to have you here as part of the team and for all the great work you're going to keep doing.

Nikki: Yay! So excited to be here.

Jake: The end!

Nia: Awesome.

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Nikki Wieman supports teens, adults, and couples, with specialized experience working with those within the LGBTQIA+ community, neurodivergent individuals, trauma survivors, and first-generation college students. Through warmth, authenticity, and collaboration, she uses her expertise in EMDR, ACT, CBT, DBT, and attachment-based therapy to provide individualized care. To learn more about Nikki or her approach to therapy, navigate to our website. To schedule a 15 minute consult with Nikki to see if she is a good fit, click this link.